“In the Light-Bearers season”; a winter holidays wish and poem

Written December 11th 2013. Posted December 13 2013.



“In this season, the festival of lights.

Love, light, liberty, life, true freewill, be with you and yours in the spirit of the bearer of light.

Peace, warmth, illumination, and good will; joy make thee prosperous during winters cold fright.

Divine presence dwell in you to fullfill, in the light-bearers season, this festival of lights.”

My views on abortion. Pro-life, cautiously pro-choice.

I’ve been debating the abortion issue with some pro-life/anti-abortion types on Alex Jones infowars{a site dedicated to conspiracy theories} and places frequented by fundamentalist/conservative pseudo-christians recently. And I’m beginning to re-think my views on abortion again. The following is my views which I emailed a few friends and decided to just cut and paste to my blog here.

I find the issue of abortion is far more nuanced and complex than most on either extreme side= anti-abortionists and pro-abortionists in their rhetorics suggest. I’ve long struggled with my views on abortion. Of course when I was a born again pseudo-christian I was hardcore ANTI-abortion/Pro-life. But after I left the faith I quickly became hardcore PRO-abortion/choice. I think in both cases I jumped the gun on the issue and allowed myself to be guilted and conned into supporting views which I now realize are shallow and hypocritical on both ends of the spectrum.

Here is why.

First off, as a person who rejects ‘revealed religion” and monotheism{I say this as a non-sectarian way of including anyone and everyone else, whether hardcore materialist rationalist such as most nu-atheists, deists, agnostics,etc, but also to include people of other religious, spiritual, mystical beliefs of other religions or philosophies about spirituality and the material realm,etc, and this includes spiritual atheists/deists/agnostics as well} I know I’m not alone in having more nuanced views on the issue. Famous{or infamous, take your pick} Anti-theist/nu-atheist, contrarian, materialist, skeptic rationalist, journalist/writer, etc Christopher Hitchens of all people{author of “god is not great”, “letters to a young contrarian”, “missionary position: mother theresa in theory and practice”, books about various thinkers and people from all sorts of political, religious/non-religious, social, etc paradigms} was known for his nuanced views on abortion as well. He said he believes the the term ‘unborn child’ has objective and valid meaning and that he was principally pro-life/critical of abortion, though at the same time he supported the right to abortion simultaneously, and I am somewhere along his lines, SORT OF, I differ is a few small regards. Hitchens views on the issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens%27_political_views#Abortion

Christopher Hitchens on abortion:

Hitchens: humanism and abortion:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HhTKzmvas

I believe that the facts show that after the 3rd or 4th month the unborn fetus is INDEED a concious /sentient individual and child and seperate individual from it’s mother, not just a virus, clump of tissue, not just a ‘growth” or like an appendix, but a completely unique and seperate human being, Science backs this up{the pro-choice/abortion mainstream generally do not, with some exceptions of course}. The fact is that by this point the baby’s/fetus’s organs are developed, it has a brain and also brainwaves, heart/heartbeats, and the ability to sense or feel physical pain and pleasure, amongst other things.

I do of course still support abortion within the first 3-4 months though given certain facts I may be willing to push that back a little to within only the first couple months. I’m still re-thinking and re-tooling my views on the issue as I restudy the facts on fetal development. Of course, the zygote or embryo is not yet a sensing, thinking human being, though of course from conception it DOES have all the genes in it that make it a seperate individual entity from it’s mother{concious and human or not}.

Many pro-choicers are against late term abortion though, after the 23-24th weeks, when a fetus can become viable if it were to be extracted due to mothers medical needs, preemies basically. And this has been my own position for several years, supporting all abortion up to that point, the point of viability. But when I consider the humkan form, the brain/waves{ie: sentience}, heart/beat, senses[with which to feel pain or pleasure; this one is a big one btw when combied with the sentience/brainwaves and heart/beat},my gut does turn when thinking about fetus’s aborted even beforehand[after the first 8-12 weeks or so in utero} and that they are very human life indeed and that when they are being aborted{usually, not always, for selfish reasons of the parents or society} they DO feel the excruciating pain of it and of the methods of abortion, they DO have a sense of fear, and it seems to me like torture of a tiny pre-born baby, and I do wonder how even materialists/rationalists/non-religious/non-theistic as well as theistic and/or deistic spiritual people not of a specific religious inclination of of one not fundamentalist/revealed religion oriented can deny it and underplay the severity of this?

I think birth control and of course RU-487, the morning after pill is an important thing. To stop the development of it before it can reach that point, when it is just a zygote seems to me reasonable and a good thing. It can help prevent over-population and can help those not ready for raising a child{for whatever the reasons} I’m all for that and will remain so.

Unlike the Hitch[and there others like him, if you google- “pro-life atheists” or pro-life rationalists or the “materialist case for pro-life/anti-abortion” or any variation of that topic theme, you find not only a far right christian/muslim fundamentalists pro-life or anti-abortion or at least of a nuaced view that does’nt exactly fall into the mainstream por-life or pro-choice mainstreams view, and not only do the fundamentalists have their reasons-often unreasonable like that because their god endows it with a spirit of conception even birth control or morning after pills are bad…which we and I do not agree with obviously; allthough perosnally I can see valid arguments for the idea that we all have spirits from the moment we are concieved, because it is not a physical entity it is not harmed though all things considered every soul should have a right to not be quashed before it’s physical body is even developed, but I would argue therefore that it is a PREFERABLE thing to not terminate AT ALL…but that as a realist it’s better to do so to prevent worse things coming from people not being ready to parent their children and all the horrible things that come from giving birth and being horrible parents or kids having to be adopted out and not know the people who concieved and gave birth to them,etc,etc}.

I have been thinking of supporting abortion up to the end of the 2nd, perhaps 3rd or 4th month, though I even still feel uncomfortable with the fourth month and to some degree the latter part of the 3rd month, before that, fine. And of cours emost abortions do occur within that time frame anyways, but many others do not{probably more than many are willing to admit}, very few happen later-term of course and when they do usually under very specific circumstances and I feel that if the baby and mother are both going to die if it does’nt take place and the baby is going to die no matter what….saving the mother is the best option, no sense in both dying.

Anyways, as I said nuanced views. I find most so-called anti-abortion/pro-lifers and most so-called pro-choice/pro-abortion types ignore the nuances and facts for their opposing ideologies sakes, and in this compassion for both the mother and child, especially the child is beeing over-looked, facts are being ignored by both ideologies.

So in short I am I think pro-life and principally opposed to abortion unless it takes place within the first 8-12 weeks of pregnancy. I don’t think people should take it lightly though, or treat it as if it’s just any medical procedure like any other. After this point we have a sensing, sentient tiny human being/baby that most methods of abortion after that point are quite brutal and torturous to it, I don’t know that it is so unreasonable to compare it to infanticide, genocide, or torture. I find it ironic that so many that would excuse or downplay this severity are often also the same that would freak out over non-human animals being harmed or tortured{as of course they should}, it seems like a cognitive dissonance on their part.
However, I am pro-choice/abortion up to that point anyhow, but afterwards?
I’m on the fence as to whether or not to ACTIVELY Oppose it after that point or not. I’m hestitant too; but by the same token my concience tells me simultaneously, probes me and suggests how can I not give these facts, given the tortureous brutality of the methods of abortion after 12 weeks, they can be very brutal to that tiny sentient, sensing entity…that by that point it cannot be denied{by sonograms and photos} that it is a tiny human baby/child that is no less so than a later term fetus or a newborn or a child or youth or teen or adult or old person, and at the last no less a living entity than any other creature.

Lastly, some links to videos, articles, and sites by pro-life freethinkers and leftists of various sorts{since the issue is usually painted as fundamentalist revealed religionist/conservative/right wing= pro-life/anti-abortion and freethinkers/non-theists{and deists}/rationalists/secularists/feminists/leftists/etc= pro-choice/pro-abortion}, these people and videos and sites reveal that this stereotype is not always true and that there are some who at the very least morally/ethically and scientifically question the legitimacy and morality of abortion:

I thought that an atheists/nontheists{and liberal theists and/or deists}, freethinkers, secularists, feminists{or pro-feminists}and leftists these videos and articles/sites might interest you.  Thank you for your time and consideration.

“Atheists who Oppose Abortion”{What do Christopher Hitchens, Robert Price, Arif Ahmed, Nat Hentoff, and other atheists/nonbelievers reject besides God?}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI1qnebq2ik   (Christopher Hitchens
Noam Chomky- BTW, Chomsky does’nt specifically imply himself as pro-life/anti-abortion here nor anywhere, he merely philosophizes on the legitimacy of ALL views in regards life/death and anything else.
Nat Hentoff
Arif Ahmet
Richard Price
Don Marquis)

Atheists that support pro-life logic:

Secular pro-life; “unscientific bullshit montage”

Feminist, pro-life, and atheist: article;





Thank you for your time and consideration in reading this and viewing these links. My last words are thus: before coming to a conclusion on the issue of abortion, do SERIOUS deep thinking and research in regards fetal development, in regards every view of the issue pro and con and inbetween, as you should do with ANY issue, idea, claim, belief,etc before coming to a conclusion and before choosing any sides. Do not simply go along with the crowd or your peers wherever your views/values/ideology may fall. Question everything, challenge everything, think and research, consider this and any issue from all possible perspectives and paradigms, than choose what makes most logical sense and also concurs with what your own heart tells you as well. Be objective, keep empathy in mind. Thank you.

One last thing I must note. That the majority of abortions occur within the first 8-9 weeks anyhow. So, obviously severely opposing them would be illegitimate, as the fetal development facts show that up to this point the embryo/fetus does not yet have fully detectable brainwaves{indicating conciousness/sentience} nor does it have fully developed nerve endings with which to feel pain/pleasure/etc{however it could be argued that ability to feel pain may not be fully relevant, there are born adult human beings whom have an illness that means they cannot feel pain- “Congenital Insensitivity to Pain with Anhidrosis (CIPA)”, this of course does not make them any less human or deserving to live and not be harmed}.

My arguments are meant to question the moral validity of abortion after this period. When the Fetus DOES have ability to sense pain/pleasure{nerve endings}, has brainwaves, etc. However, the lack of pain/pleasure/nerve endings thing does not constitute a fully logical or valid argument for abortion either, taking into context that even some born humans with the inability to feel pain{Congenital Insensitivity to Pain with Anhidrosis (CIPA)} does not make them any less human or any less deserving of rights to not be harmed.




-ADD: My letter to the local newspaper “The Brandon Sun” about the issue:

//”In regards “abortion factions get tense” Brandon Sun, Friday, October 4th, 2013. I know this letter is belated by a few weeks, but I felt the need to weigh in now as I have been reconsidering my own position on the issue of abortion and wanted to shed some light on the issue from a more balanced perspective than what is usually heard from the two extreme sides.

I was pro-life/anti-abortion till age 25,  from thereon I was pro-choice/abortion for several years. I have examined this issue from all perspectives, as of recently I have debated some pro-lifers and they challenged me to re-tool my views on the issue.
I believe a pro-life case can be made from a rational, and even materialist perspective. Would I say I am pro-life? Yes. I would also say I am cautiously pro-choice at the same time. I am not alone in this amongst those not of a fundamentalist religious worldview. Several prominent freethinkers from infamous Anti-theist, intellectual, contrarian writer Christopher Hitchens{RIP} whom said he believed that if the concept ‘child” has meaning than so does the concept “unborn child”{and indeed, it is curious how if one wants their fetus, they call it a child, if they don’t they use the dehumanizing clinical term ‘fetus”}, to Writer and thinker liberal christian atheist Robert M. Price has expressed pro-life views. I am not an atheist nor liberal christian myself, I count myself theologically a Panen-Deist and am inclined towards a type of Luciferianism. My own views on abortion are as nuanced and complex as the issue of Fetal development and abortion are.

I have come to a view that supports the right to abortion within the first 2 to 2 and a half months of pregnancy. I hold that late term abortions are indeed a killing of a human being and person and a unborn child/baby in the third trimester and also in the 2nd trimester. It is a fact that most abortions occur within the first trimester and most of those occur within the first several weeks, before the embryo becomes a fetus or when it is just on the cusp of it, before it has brainwaves and senses with which to sense pain/pleasure{there are electrical signals within the developing brain by week 6, but the frontal lobe or parts of the cerebral cortex, the parts that birth concious thought/sentience, are not yet fully formed, but beginning, so brainwaves that can be measured as awareness are not in place quite yet within the first trimester}. So the extreme anti-abortion side has no valid arguments against abortion in the first couple months of pregnancy. However, biological brain science does reveal that within the 2nd trimester all these things come into focus, along with the nervous system and nerve endings.

Given these facts, I find it sad how both the mainstream pro-life/anti-abortion and the pro-choice/abortion movements rely more on emotional appeals, logical fallacies, and half-truth rhetorics to make their cases. I believe both extgreme ends miss the boat, ignore the facts, and muddle the issue, and refuse objective reasoning and ulimately genuine empathy as well on this issue. I cannot see how the anti-abortion side can be opposed to abortion within the first couple months of pregnancy{they use the God instills a spirit at conception argument alot; which true or not is irrelevent as to whether this is the murder of a thinking, sensing human being at that point}, the pro-abortion side ignores the facts of fetal development that are inconvenient to their ‘abortion on demand” and ‘my body, my choice” rhetorics.

Most abortions, in Canada about 64% of abortions last I read, occur within the first 8 weeks after conception. So, from my personal view and I believe the objective facts on the issue, these abortions are not murders, cannot be reasonably argued to be so. That is a small majority of abortions. However about 1 in ten are done either in the 2nd or 3rd trimester, most of those in the 2nd, a very, very small number are done in the 3rd[and usually only in extreme cases, such as when the baby is going to die anyhow and the mother will too if the abortion is not done}. However, my pro-life side is very concerned about this fact because that means that hundereds if not a few thousand abortions done every year are done to sentient, feeling tiny human babies, and this fact cannot be denied objectively by the pro-abortion on demand side. Though this is a minority of abortions, which is many more thousands a year, it is still at least several hundred to a few thousand unborn children{not mere unthinking, unsensing clumps of tissue or like tumors or appendixes} that are killed each year{and even though the Zygote and embryo are not yet at that stage of brainwave and senses, they nonetheless contrary to mainstream pro-abortion views are not just outgrowths of the mothers own body, but scientifcally proven seperate entities with their own DNA, this does not in my opinion make them yet persons in the moral and legal sense of sentient, sensing persons, but it most certainly makes them HUMAN “beeings” in the objective sense of those words}.  The stats differ elightly in the U.S. and differ variously throughout different countries{abortion stats, not fetal development stats and what each stage of growth ethically implies about what rights should be given or not given to them}.

This issue has far to long been monopolized by unreasonable hypocrites on both sides, the voice of reason, objective facts, and genuine empathy have all but been censored out of the debate for rhetoric and fallacy driven idealogues on both sides, and the media and govt have encouraged this, extreme controversy sells I guess, but it most certainly is not the voice of truth in the matter.

I for one do not wish to see abortion made illegal, it should remain legal and readily avaliable for within the first couple months of pregnancy. However something does need to be done to put an end to or aty least lesson the numbers of abortions committed in the second and third trimesters, which are indeed murders. Abortionists that do later term abortions{in 2nd and 3rd trimesters} should be, in my opinion, brought up on charges{though not the mothers and the mainstream pro-choice MOVEMENT, most are just brainwashed and not malevolent, but doctors that do later term abortions know full well that what they are killing..and with very torturous and gruesome methods I might add, is a undergrown unborn child}- 2nd and 3rd term abortions are indeed tantamount to infanticide. Late term fetus’s and newborn babies do not have much substantial differences between them, this is a fact proven through science, the same science which the extreme end of the pro-abortion movement ignore and rely on pseudo-science and logical fallacies whilst accusing the extreme end of the pro-life side of these fallacies, both are guilty of them. Both need to be corrected with the facts! There are many more and better methods for dealing with unexpected and unwanted pregnancies than abortion, and even abortion in the first trimester should be used unless there are no other alternatives.

Many would rather this issue just goes away and that no more public debate happens about it. It cannot and should not go away, not until these issues are addressed objectively and empathetically by both sides and the laws reflect these facts about fetal development. As it stands now, abortion can be done right up to the point of Viability{when a fetus/child can survive outside the womb; which frankly is another irrelevent factor, as irrelevant as the extreme fundamentalist religionists/far rights anti-abortionists referance to potential immaterial souls} , somewhere between 20 and 24 weeks. And 1 in ten are done between week 15 and week 24 in utero}-when no one can reasonably argue that the fetus is not objectively a smaller human baby with nerve senses and brainwaves and full human form}- so the debate needs to be re-oppened and laws need to better reflect these facts and realities, because no matter how you slice it…at least some abortions are murders of unborn human children!

For more info on the materialist case against abortion{I am not a materialist myself, I am a spiritual person, but wish to be objective} please visit http://www.secularprolife.org/ and http://www.allourlives.org/ , as well as google the materialist and atheist or nontheist case for abortion, and I recommend visiting youtube and viewing the videos which feature Christopher Hitchens position on abortion as well as the videos for ‘atheists against abortion”.

Let your conclusions be rationally and objectively drawn from an extensive research of the facts regarding abortion and regarding fetal development. Only then will truth and justice be served in regards this issue!

Thank you.

Will Baker



On Bohemian Grove and the religion of the power elites.

I’ve been hearing alot about this Behomian Grove in California, whe rich elites and powerholders meet once a year and have rituals, including a ritual “mock” sacrifice to the owl god Moloch. It is said to be comprised of primarily babylonian and druidic elements.

Famous conspiratologist Alex Jones infilitrated the grove in the year 2000 and filmed what they saw for a documentary expose.

In his video{WHICH CAN BE ORDERED OR EVEN WATCHED ON YOUTUBE FOR FREE}, Jones does’nt show us the faces of ANY of the “power elites” in attendence, these could’ve been mostly semi-welathy middle classers, the cost in only 25,000 dollars to go once, but 5000 more each year to remain a member. That’s a cost that not only super rich elites can afford, but even some middle classers.  Jones’s video does’nt show us any, hence we have no way of being sure how many, if any REALLY elite power holders were actually in attendence, at least when he went. However, we know from media stories on it that indeed some elite power elites have been. People from the Bushes and to Ronald Reagan, to rich business and bankers and so on. A ticket to attend it and view the ritual,etc. Which makes it seem like more a wealthy and SEMI-wealthy persons modern day “hellfire club”…though without the satanic symbolism.

Jones and others have been going around calling Bohemian Grove and it’s members “Luciferian”, actually he has a serious hate on for Luciferianism, a withhunt attitude towards us, as he always calls the elites in general…Luciferians. This is a Luciferianism that seems to exist only in Jones’s mind and minds of other conservative christian conspiracy theorists, as there is NOTHING ACTUALLY “Luciferian” in Bohemian Groves ritual and symbolism. There IS, however plenty of pagan{not neopagan} and some basic occult symbolism in it. As a Luciferian myself for about a decade, I’ve found NOTHING to show that these symbols are even Luciferian in origin, some of them, such as the owl, may be revered as a symbol of wisdom, by SOME{including myself}, but they, and least of all the owl or the deity Moloch, are not held up as a specifically or especially important symbol correlating directly with the path(s) of Luciferianism. Also, Luciferianism reveres living things and individual freewill of sentient beings, this is inherent in the path(s), while it is true some may see the flesh as a bad thing and this material and mortal realm or coil as bad, such as some gnostic Luciferian paths, respect for every individual freewill and not imposing ones own on another is a basic principle inherent in all Luciferian paths. That is, if the sacrifice at Bohemian Grove is real, which I’m inclined to think unlikely, but who knows, perhaps? It’s likely all just staged, like a good play at a theatre, it’s called getting catharsis, psychopomp, it’s all symbolic. The elites don’t need to sacriice anything or one at their Bohemian Grove meeetings anhow, they allready do plenty of human sacrifice through less obvious means and don’t care. And that’s really the point here. That these people are NOT SPECIFICALLY “Luciferian”. They are just sociopaths revelling in a mock ritual and in their own ill gotten excess. Are of of them genuine Occultists? Without doubt, yes. That is obvious; however, some of them are likely not at all serious about any of the occult trappings or even a belief in magick. It’s complex.  And it’s individual, not collective, amongst them. The point is also that the rituals at Bohemian Grove are not Luciferian or even Satanist, they are particularly Babylonian, Druidic, and with a touch of freemasonry{scottish rite/sect if I’m not mistaken}.

These elites are’nt even likely Druids or pagans or real believers in Babylonian mythology. What they ARE, what their religion IS, is first and foremost – capitalism, but also they are heavily Randian/Objectivist{which BTW Laveyan or CoS Satanism also is; howeverthere seems to be no satanist rituals involved or symbols involved …at all…at Bohemian Grove, let alone Luciferian ones}. I also susp[ect a smidgen of Illuminism/Illuminatism amongst them, but NOT Adam Weishupts original Illuminati{or the order of perfectabalists}- who were ANTI-establishment, ANTI- aristocratic oppression/abuse, for absolute liberty….with concience}, I will say more on the Illuminati in future posts, for now it is enough to say that though the original Illuminati was disbanded, some of it’s members did keep the vision going…a corrupted version of it, no more TRUE Illuminati/Illuminism than the Crsaders and Inquisitors and withhunters and capitalist elite Christians were or are representing true Christianity or the vision of Jesus Christ. In short, the Illuminati, as coneived by Professor Adam Weishupt became corrupted through some ill concieved methods of how the org would operate. I believe his original vision was likely a good one, but having spies and counter-spies in his org as a method and the creation of a heirarchy..WITHING the org/group{they were outwardly philanthropic and egalitarian to society, but semi-opressive to themselves, ironically}..this corrupted a great vision and idea, and that corruption MAY be continuing into today, however there is no sure way to be sure these elites even consider themselves as Illuminati or Illuminists or “perfectabalists”, thus it’s knda irrelevent, can’t blame the Illuminati, as originally concieved, for the corruption of today inside it, anymoere than you can blame christ or the original and true Christians for the corruption of the Catholic Church/Vatican, or right wing neocon capitalist western christianity or the abuses of the later insitutions that abuse the original ideas and founders visions.

Given the several cultural components of their rituals at Bohemian Grove, and also in their daily lives with whatever other religions that absue to set up as a scapegoa{Chistinaity for example; many pretend to be christians…to set christianity up for their crimes, just as they use pagan and occult symbolisms and rituals to do the same to these paths and cultures/subcultures, to direct attention away from them and have us throwing stones at each others religions/et instead. And it seems the conspiracy is working, you’ve got atheists and pagans and luciferians and satanists and muslims and others all pointing the finger of blame at each other and/or each others paths, mindlessly, like puppets. And it seems that Alex Jones and his ilk are amongst those who have fallen for it, Jones has allowed his a-priori PREJudice/bigotry towards “Luciferianism” to cloud his objective judgement and begin a withhunt against us, but there areLuciferians and others who blame christianity alone too who start withhunts of their own on christians/christianity…as a whole, out of their own a-priori bigoted prejudices, and the cycle of idiocy conitnues.

What IS the religion of the elites? Whom are using ALL SORTS of religions and paths to do their majick, to decieve, to set up as falls guys/scapegoats and further flame prejudiced finger pointing from the religions/paths at each other…a distraction, part of the elites tricks. What DO the elites actually believe? What IS their religion{aside from capitalism and sociopathy- including for most of them Randianism/Objectivism and/or social darwinism}? It is none and all. Yes, these men[and women} of the elites are occultists or perhaps even dark pagans{nothing about the Bohemian Grove ritual and symbols, for example, actually is all that “Occult” oriented or derived, most of it seems to be some form of nature based paganism}, or rather let me qualify that, SOME of them are, some are likely not truly into occult arts or magick, but may indeed have lackeys working for them that ARE, utilizing them and their magicks. These elites therefore, by ALL INDICATIONS of someone who actually knows what he’s talking about, are Chaote Occultists/pagans{ie: of the philosophy and practice of chaos magick}. Chaotism in it’s pure form is when one does’nt believe anything is true{or the ONLY TRUE}…Therefore, all is permitted. Chaotism is to the occult world what the evangelical and charismatic movements are to Christianity, non-sectarian or at least LESS sectarian. I use chaotism myself, but am specifically inclined towards a symbolic and philiosophical spiritual paradigm of LuciferianismPand also Panen-Deism}, but I’m not completelty dogmatic in it, thus the chaos magick influence. These elites do not have any inclinations religiously/spiritually, they are not of a set paradigm, they are simply chaos magicians using whatever works, andything and everything. Hence why they do the Bohemian Grove pagan magick, but also the going to Church every sunday and dooing the christian magick and having a mock/fake drinking of the blood and eating the flesh of a visionary mystic and ethecist man called Jesus Christ, Christian Church or Behomeian Grove, both utilize symbols of death..and also symbols of life, at Boehmian there is a fake human sacrifice, in church…a fake cannbalistic rite. I am continually flabberghasted at the hypocrisy of  conservtive Christians like Jones{etc}, their audacity, hypocrisy, in demonizing others religions, scapegoating them, thinking it so wrong fro them to have symbols representing death{and life} and symbolic rituals that involve things such as mock sacrifice or things that are dark or grusome, when they go to their churches and mock cannibilize their own god/prophet/a man that actually lived. It seems like the height of hypocritical double standarded cognitive dissonance. How would Jones feel if someone came into his church and filmed him mock cannibalizing Christ and then claiming this made him evil and sadistic. I’m not saying the Bohemian Grove elites are not sadistic and evil, just that to condemn and demonize another path for symbolism and rituals relating to death and so-called “dark” imagery, when their own also has such dark and death related symbolism and magickal ritual too. It’s the height of bigotry and hypocrisy, and I’m calling Jones and his bigoted against Luciferianism ilk out for their witchhunt against Luciferianism/Luciferians, accusing our path(s) of being something they are not. And worst of all.scapegoating our path for the evils of the global power elites, seriously..Jones and others like him, get your facts straight and stop this baseless hate and withhunt.

I respect what Jones and others have done in exposing and fighting the global power elites and their conspiracies against the people. But this baselessly scapegoating of Luciferians/Ism, and of ALL OF occultism{got news for ya Jones, your christian rituals..ARE occultism, in the objective use of that word, they are also a form of “magick” and witchcraft; to argue against this fact would just be an argument in semantics}. The elites do not have a paradigm. They practice chaos magick{chaos magick btw is not “evil”, it is a method and can be used for benevolently or malevolently, it ,like occultism and magick..is merely a tool, tools are not benevolent or malevolent, it is in how you use the tool and fo what purposes}.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. The religion of the elites…and it is NOT what Jones and his ilk are saying it is. Jones and his ilk need to aknowledge this fact, that their scapegoating of Luciferianism{and of Satanism, as a whole} and of the occult and various other things he seeks to demonize..is based on him being shallow in his knowledge/understandinmg of these things, a-priri PREjudgementally bigoted towards. The accusations are at most “half truths”. I ask Jones, as fellow freedom fighter, as a fellow conspiratologist against the global power elites..to get this straight and to admit it and back down on the scapegoating in his own PREjudice. Same for many other conspiratologists, please get your facts right. I, for one, am not going around claiming there is a christian conspiracy..even though christianity is the biggest sect in the world, even though many power holders or rich elites are christians or muslims or jews/abrahamics, I ask the same favor from Jones and his ilk, don’t do so to us. Recognize that the elites are using your misunderstandings, they too don’t care if Luciferians/etc gtet scapegaoted….as a fall guy, for THEIR crimes, no more than they do if christiaity gets the blame, or atheism, od druidism, or islam. They don’t care. That is why they are not and CANNOT be “Luciferian”. And Jones, has it occured to you that with all the tech and security at the disposal of these elites that you could’ve so easily infiltrated their event/ritual, they knew you were theer from the get go, they allowed you see and film it purposefully, because they knew what you dod’nt..that it would make you look crazier and also bigoted{scapegoating Luciferians and Pagans}, had it been a REAL sacrifice, do you REALLYthink these power holders would’ve allowed you in so easily? Come on Alex, you’ve gotta be smrater than that. You only saw and filmed it because theye did’nt care if you did, because it was faked/staged, in part…to fuck with your head and get you on a withhunt tirade against Paganism and Luciferianism….a distraction for the public and a means to set up Luciferians and Pagans via you naivety and misundertandings about these things

You’ve aided them in setting us up as the fall guys for their crimes, even though our paths are OPPOSED to the horrible things they do and their false motives. Thanks Alex for making our lives a living hell of persecution and demonization and for spurring futuire withhunts. Thanks to the elites for using Alex, unbekownst to him, to set us up as their scapegoat. You’ve all done a great job at conspiring against us and against the truth..and therefore. the people.

LVX! The light of the cross. 93×3. AbraHADbra. The true light that breaks forth from darknesss. Hail Prometheus, Ave Lucifer, IO Pan! BRAH-men. Glory Phi-God!


An interesting youtube video exposing the scam artist Jones and his not so impressive Bohemian Grove movie:

“Jones Faked Bohemian Grove Video”


Anonymous: “Wear V/Guy Fawkes masks, protest, march on D.C. November 5th, 2013”

Remember, Remember!

Anonymous To All, Wear Your Guy Fawkes Mask On November 5th, 2013


ANONYMOUS Declaration of Freedom Nov 5 2013


#Nov5th 2013: Anonymous pledges to hack govt websites globally on Guy Fawkes Day


March On D.C.


In solidarity with Anonymous, Occupy, The march on D.C., and human rights and civil liberties activists around the world I myself will wear my V mask on Nov 5th, 2013 and carry a sign in my own city{perhaps at City Hall or at The Provincial building, or simply just walking around in public dooing so}. I encourage others in my city/area to join in and encourage others in other cities to do the same. The time has come to fight, blood, sweat, and tears, through the mists of their oppression we shall gain liberty and justice!!! We are legion! We do not forgive, we do not forget. Remember!


The Peoples Luciferian

Steven Greer Presents Contact Disclosure, The Final Sequence – Time For Truth – Sirius Movie

Dr. Steven Greer, head of the internationally renowned “Disclosure Project” presenting a lecture about the Extra-terrestrial presence on Earth and the intentions of the E.T.’s, and about the secret/shadow govt’s conspiracy of silence and misinformation about the ET/Ufo phenomena. This comes on the heels of Dr.Greers groundbreaking documentary “Sirius” showing conclusive proof of it all, which he presented recently to the U.S. govt.

More info: http://www.disclosureproject.org/




Poem/lyric/song- “Luciferi Exelci”; a statement of belief.

“LUCIFERI EXELCI”: By Willam Baker 2013(C)


Io Pan! Forward I emerge from the shadows.

Upward I rise to divine self glory.

I, self illumined, smash through shards of darkened windows,

to set my throne aright and rewrite my story.


Cast down, fallen from the limitless light of mother Ain Sophia

My Daa’ther forsakes me to dimensions of matter.

Unperturbed by this shroud of blackened mysteria.

I emanate interior light and shine forth my standard.


P’tah, P’tah, P’tah


Weaving in, out, and through strands of cosmos

piercing the minds of beings above and below.

Igniting the flame of Yaldabaoth in them flow.


P’tah, P’tah, P’tah


~Chorus~: So bright in my darkness, illusions I break.

So dark in my brightness, foundations of lies I shake.

So divine in my fleshly way, so extolled in spirit

Love, liberty, free will in example, demiurge spirit.

Luciferi Exelci- I lead the way.


I am the true light that breaks forth from darkness


Forethought incarnate, Prometheus I become.

My heart, my torch I’ve stolen from elysium.

Immaculate it’s conception, shrine of engulfing light,

Morning star, bearer of creation, justice, and freedom.


P’tah, I spit the light before the slaves…declaring emancipation!


~Chorus again~


Ea Enki-Lucifer, Ea-Enki-Prometheus, Ea Enki-Quetzquatl(X3)


Gods of tyranny, leeches thou art- I crush!

Yahveh, Zeus, Allah, and others with no heart.

Phanes, Melek Taus, Samael, I merge with thee

In love, in true free-will, victory in absolute liberty!


Baphomet, Yin-Yang, Phi-God, Grand Architect- breathe in me/us!


~Chorus again~:



An open letter to Alex Jones, David Icke, George Noory, and other conspiratologists…

…By, Another conspiratologist, namely me.

This is an open letter to Alex Jones, David Icke and other leading conspiratologists who erroneously call the NWO sociopathic elites “Luciferians” and/or “Satanists, as well as “New Agers”, “Crowleyians”, “NeoPagans”,etc” and who erroneously lump all these paths together at that. This isn’t AS directed at George Noory and coast to coast a.m since they are not as bad with this scapegoating and errors in logic and connection, though Dear Mr.Noory, if you would be so kind…I ask you to read this and consider the requests I am making to these other leading conspiratologists for yourselves as well, since it does make it’s way into your content{this scapegoating of Luciferianism and Satanism..all sects and adherents thereof} a bit, also to my personal fave Jesse Ventura{who does’nt really get much into the luciferianism/satanism/new ageism scapegoating himself, but this is still important for you as well Governor Ventura}.

To Mr Jones and Mr.Icke, and co.

For years you have been alledging that the NWO elites are SPECIFICALLY “Luciferians” and/or “Satanists” and scapegoating the entirety of these paths and all of their subsects and adherents based on your strawman arguments and a-priori biases and prejudices{pre-concieved false notions} against Such, as well as against New Agers[and all it’s sects and adherents} and Paganism[all sects/adherents}, All of Freemasonry, all Illuminism{including all of the Illuminati}, all occult and mystic reeligions in all their sects{and adherents}, also falsely lumping these ALL together.

Your evidence? Older debunked research, and mis-indentifying symbols used by SOME elites and/or by SOME of these paths in SOME contexts, lumping them together into one big strawman filled hypothesis.

I personally have tried sending Mr.Jones letters{or rather PM’s on via facebook pages} to discuss this and to provide the facts on these paths and counter-evidence agianst his own, to try to diplomatically inform him so he and others will stop these false allegations and accusations, this scapegoating, this witch hunt! No avail! I sent him a few messages, he never responded.

I’m not going to outline all the facts and evidence in this post/letter. Much of this is avaliable elsewhere on my blog as well as all over the net and elsewhere. Nor am I going to here get into more specific examples of the errors of logic, faulty research, and false dot connecting, and the obvious a-priori prejudice you make. I will in further additions to my blog explain and inform of the errors you make in your accusations and the info/research you have done/provided obviously isn’t very nuanced or expansive, making alot of false assumptions and errors in knowledge about these paths.

Rather, here, I simply ask you to look at the evidence and arguments provided elsewhere on this blog and also on the net{and Mr.Jones, I have provided many posts on your infowars.com sites articles, especially as of recent days{the last couple weeks, It is late July 2013} providing tons of evidence and nuanced, diplomatic, informative arguments and posts to inform you and your readers of the errors you make in your obsession with persecuting and scapegoating anything not christian{or YOUR fundamentalist, conservative brand of it anyways}…especially Luciferianism, Satanism, and the other afforementioned religions/traditions/paths{and subsects and adherents}.

Furthermore, I ask that you interview leading Luciferians, Satanists, New Agers, Neopagans, and others with an open heart and mind to consider what they have to say, about their paths/these religions and the allegations you level against us all. Give us a chance to defend ourselves; in interview format perhaps or something. Google “J eremy Crow Luciferian” for example{a head of The Ordo Luciferi and of the Luciferian Research Society}, he is a “Gnostic Luciferian”, or the heads of the Neo-Luciferian Church of Denmark{A Neo-gnostic sect}. just google their organization. John Allee is a good Satanist leader to talk to if you’re gonna talk to a Satanist{he has a website “satanism central” or church of satan.org, google it}- I reccomend him because he has the most diverse knowledge of Satanism and can properly represent on behalf of Modern or atheistic as well as theistic and spiritual Satanisms, whereas if you were to talk to a representative of Anton Laveys “Church of Satan”{CoS} they act like a monopoly and are more a cult of personality surrounding the figure of Lavey and his Objectivism/Randianism, so you will get a very dogmatic view of Satanism from them, with Allee, it is more nuanced and well reserahed and not just a cult of personality. These are merely reccomendations of course, but I ask you to take this into serious consideration, These are some of the best, most knowledgeable leaders of Luciferian and Satanist religion. Please perhaps consider also a reprsentative of a New Age path and a Neo-pagan one too, I have no reccomendations for you of their leaders or major thinkers. My main focus here is to encourage you to talk to and perhaps interview for your sites or radioshows, videos,etc, some of these leading figures in Luciferianism and Satanism. If you like and are willing, I’d be wiling to chat with you in a written interview and/or one of your radio shows and set the record straight if given opportunity, though it would be better for you to interview/talk to the afforementioned individuals I mentioned.

This is a SERIOUS and SINCERE request to you Mr.Jones, Mr.Icke, Mr.Noory, Mr.Ventura{mainly only because Mr.Jones is one of your main go too guys}, etc; especially to you Mr.Jones since you feature these allegations much more often and vehemently than the others it seems.

I implore you to take my suggestion and request under serious consideration, give us a chance to defend ourselves before accusing.

For now, I refer you to my post on this blog here called “On Bohemian Grove and the religion of the global power elites” as well as the other posts on my blog. To understand and know what Luciferianism ACTUALLY IS as well, what we ACTUALLY Believe and/or practice, and it’s history and origins. I link to many other Luciferian sites and resources in a couple of these posts. As for the other paths mentioned I am not of them specifically, though I know and understand their paths in most cases fairly well, I will allow them to defend themselves and merely show my support for them by asking you to talk to some of them or some of their leading lights. Regarding Satanism, “satanismcentral” is the best, most accurate site explaining Satanism in my personal opinion.  And regarding Illuminism and also the Illuminati, my post on this blog called “What is Illuminism” is a good start.

Thank you for your time, attention, and consideration{if indeed you give it such at all in a spirit of fairness}.

The Peoples Luciferian

Will Baker.

LVX Populi!


Update: more specific info.

Please read Jones, Icke, Noory and others.: I reply to inform you of your
misconceptions. Please read for the facts, because you have much
misunderstanding of these things. Lucifer is NOT Satan, nor is
Luciferianism=Satanism, explained here and now: Satanists and Illuminati
totally different things, and you not only misunderstand and misrepresent Luciferianism{which is my own path and the path I primarily focus on defedning here} but also Satanism and Illuminism and the Illuminati. I am a Luciferian and you are completely
incorrect about Luciferianism. I am not a “Satanist”. At least no more
or less so than I am a Thelemite, a neopagan, a new ager, a taoist, or a
Christian. All paths that have influenced and inspired me on and my
path, but I’m not directly of any of those labels/paths, just influenced

Nor is Satanism what you seem to think it is. Here is a Q&A page from and about ACTUAL Satanism: satanismcentral.com/

As for Luciferianism, it is not synonymous with Satanism anymore than
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and sikhism are synonymous with each
Because The 3 abrahamic faiths and sikhism share some similar
influences, ideas, and symbols, but also have some very different ones
as well; the same is true regarding Luciferianism and Satanism.

Lucifer and Satan have different etymological, cultural, historical
origins, meanings, and implications, as do Satanism and Luciferianism.
Lucifer isn’t even a biblical character, unlike satan. You will likely
referance the passage in Isaiah that you erronenously think Lucifer is
mentioned in, but you are incorrect; That passage is mistranslated by
fundy christians. Contextually and
originally the passage did not and does not say ‘Lucifer”, it merely
says ‘how art thou fallen oh הילל בן שחר (hêlêl ben šāḥar)”{merely
morning star/son of the dawn”. In Isaiah supposedly about Lucifers fall never said Lucifer. It
referred to a human babylonian king whose poetic title was moring
star/son of the dawn. Yes Luciferians use “morning star” as a
title for Lucifer but we get it not from Isaiah but from where Lucifer
originates in greek myth, as a referance to the planet Venus as the
last bright object in the sky just before daybreak}, btw> Jesus
Christ also refers to himself as “morning star” in Revelations.

Are you aware that the
Christian church did not even use Lucifer as another name for their
satan or devil until about the 1300’s a.d.{or c.e}? And it was’nt even
really a popularly used name for satan or the devil until around the
time Goethe wrote his poems about hell and poet John Milton wrote
“paradise lost” just a few centuries ago. The passage in Isaiah never
said Lucifer, and the early Church fathers and early christians knew
this. Furthermore, the passage in Isaiah does not refer to the fall of
an angel or demon, it refers contextually to a very human babylonian
kings fall.


There is no basis in the Bible or elsewhere really for equating Lucifer as satan or the devil/diabolus nor as mephistopheles.

Here is what Luciferianism ACTUALLY is and what actual/real
Luciferians believe{it’s not what you think it is}: “Who or what is
Lucifer? and what is Luciferianism?”=  https://thepeoplesluciferian.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/who-or-what-is-lucifer-and-what-is-luciferianism/

Luciferianism has nothing to do with the NWO elites. There is no
proof that it does, just disinformation and misinformation rhetoric from
fundamentalist christians. Luciferianism opposes all forms of
tyranny/oppression and is based on principles of love, light, life,
liberty, freewill & Truewill, and justice.

Luciferian scriptures{ a collection of quotes and links to actual Luciferian writing:  https://thepeoplesluciferian.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/the-luciferian-sciptures/

Lucifer was first used by the ancient greeks to refer to the planet
venus in it’s morning glory as the brightest object in the dawn sky just
before daybreak. And Lucifer archetypcally{see Psychollogisst Carl
Jungs theories on ‘archetypes”} is Prometheus{a very compassionae and
philanthropic deity who opposes Zeus’s tyranny over humans},
Enki{sumerian}, Quetzequatl{Aztec}, amongst others. Lucifer comes from
the latin words lvx/lux and ferrer{light and bearer/light-bearer} not
from the hebrew scriptures. Whereas Satan comes from the hebrew Ha-satan
“the adversary/opposer” whom in Jewish scriptures was not a fallen
angel even but rather worked willingly qwith and for the heavanl;y Judge
Yahveh as his heavanly court prosecuter and as an angel Yahveh sent to
‘oppose” humans works on his behalf, and there is even a etymollgical
theory postulating that the hebrews got their word satan from a combo of
two Sanscrit/vedantic words “SAT”{pure existance/BEING} and
“TAN”{emanating or unfolding from/BECOMING} or ‘eternal truth” and that
the Jews may have pulled an etymological and cultural inversion[however
this is disputable}. Satan means ‘adverary” and archetypally is
Zoroastrainisms/ancient Persias Ahriman/Angra Mainyu, and egypts Set.
Totally different[Lucifer and Satan; Luciferianism and Satanism}.

Luciferianism is actually based in pirnciples of love, light, life, liberty/free-will and true will, justice, anti-oppression.

And it is NOT anti-christian inherently, either. In fact some sects and individuals in gnostic and new age Luciferianism see Lucifer and Christ as brother beings or energies or eve as two aspects of the same being or energy. Some talk of Lucifer bearing the light..that is Christ, he/it paves the way for initation into Christhood{or christ-conciousness}- that is, to become Christ-like, to become an illuminated messiah. I am one of those.

Please do some more cross-referanced objective research before
spreading midinformation/disinfo, strawman arguments, and erroneous

The NWO elites are NOT Luciferian. there is nothing specifically
Luciferian in their plans nor in their religious iconography. There are
allusions to certain satanist and luciferian and/or new age and/or
neopagan influence in some of their religious stuff, but also christian
stuff{amongast others}. Many of these people do this stuff but also go
to church. It’s not that they are sincere about one and insincere about
another. They are what is called in the occult world “Chaotes” or “Chaos
Magick” users, with no particular religious paradigm. Google chaotism
and chaos magick to learn more.

Luciferianism main symbol- “the sigil of lucifer”{which has never been used by the elites  in any thing}:

“On Bohemian Grove and the religion of the power elites”

“An open letter to Alex Jones, David Icke, George Noory, and other
conspiratologists…”{or to pseudo-conspiratologists as it were}:

To those calling it the “Illuminati”:
“What IS Illuminism”{and who/what were the Illuminati, what did the stand for/against?}:

The actual Illuminati symbol
was’nt even the all seeing eye pyramid. I was the minerval owl, said to
represent wisdom and the ability to see in/through the dark. It’s sad
all the false info out there scapegoating what was/is a nobel
movement/philosophy, which sadly misleads people from blaming those whom
ACTUALLY deserve the blame and tarnish something that is actually for
their liberty

“10 facts about the ACTUAL Illuminati”

“The Illuminati fought for democracy”:

Please learn the facts before scapegoating a religion, any religion,
or any group, cast off stereotypes, learn objective facts, let go of
your bigotry and PREjudice and misundertsandings that lead you to
misreprsent{misinfo.disinfo} certain groups or paths and in so dooing
take the focus off of those who actually should be getting blamed, this
scapegoating of these paths is just a distraction and a lie.

Thank you for reading and considering.

“Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura: HAARP”

This video is an episode of “”Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura” on the topic of HAARP{The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program}. A secret{but obvious} experiment consisting of over 100 large antennas set up in Alaska, which can be used to manipulate or control the weather{create or push clouds and jet streams around to manipulate weather patterns and create dangerous weather} as well as has mind control/manipulation applications. Of course, those behind it say it’s nothing of this sorts, but as this video explains..that is a lie, they can and do use it for such.

I will be dooing an article soon on HAARP and also “Chemtrails” and how they are used in conjunction for these afforementioned purposes, and I will be referancing some specific dangerous and unexpected weather that has caused major problems all over, specifically I will be referring to The recent two mile wide Tornado that nearly obliterated a city in Oklahoma, as well as freak storms in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and elsewhere, as well as my own home city. Stay tuned for that, coming soon….

Lux Populi!

Hail Satan at Texas state capital

Hail Satan at Texas state capital

Following are the primary comments{I’ve made others as well there} I made to this article and the accompanying video therein in the comments section under the article on infowars.com:

“I’m not convinced yet that this video is not doctored, it does’nt seem that that girl or anyone else in the video is actually hearing the “hail satans”, they seem to be oblivious to these loud chants, would’nt they be reacting in some way{probably in a frightended or disturbed way} if this was’nt doctores or added to the video? Furthermore, if it IS real, did it not occur that perhaps the activists were being sarcastic making fun of these fundy pseudochristian anti-abortionists for their hypocrisy, you know making a point{btw, I could one guys voice over the others, so indications are that not ALL the pro-chociers were shouting it, unless it was a very small crowd of them}: fundy christians ALWAYS get to speak loudly in public and at these sorts of public or govt events/buildings[and also in public}, they get INVITED by the govts/etc to do so, no one ever invites a satanist[or really anyone else for that matter} to give speeches from their perspective{rarely ever even Jews or Muslims; their fellow abrahamics /revealed religionists} in North America and in places like the UK. They ask, they usually get turned down. Pseudo-Christians{evangelical/fundamentalist/born againers; whether Catholic or Protestant} have an elite monopoly in such contexts in Western Society, allmost always given special privelaghes over every other religious path, view, or ideology, privelages given them by the state and by much of western public{majority}. Perhaps these pro-choicers were making the point- fundy christians and so on can get away with this stuff in public and govt buildings…perhaps they decided “hey, would’nt it be funny and also make a point if we just started “hail satan”, we’re not all satanists{most of us are’nt} but it would send a point about the special privelages fundy/etc pseudo-christians get that are’nt affordned anyone else/any other religion in the west, but to make our point simply shouting something of the other big 4, lets use the most demonized minority alternative religion…satanism.”. FACT: Most pro-choicers are not satanists{most I’ve ever met have been either liberal christians or Neo-Pagans, or rationanlists and materialists such as atheists, agnostics, and deists}. Not all satanists are pro-abortion, though most are{for political reasons and ethical ones, not religious ones}. Some satanists are pro-life in the abortion issues for their own reasons. Many christians are pro-choice too. I think either this video is doctored OR the protesters{the pro-choice ones} were just trying to make a point as I mentioned above. And btw, there is a reason why the Uk Church of Satan said what they said in response to it, because Satanism is’nt all about diabolicism{especially in a context that will just make the rest of the world continue the negative stereotypes about satanism}. The comment in the article above “Apparently the butchering of 20-week old children is too diabolical for
even Satan! But it’s considered a “right” by U.S. abortion advocates” is like someone assuming Christians practice cannibalism{which the Romans once did to the early Christians…due to the Christians symbolism of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of christ,etc; they misintrpreted christians/christianity symbolisms and meanings just as the writer of the article has misintrepted the symbolims and meaning of Satanism to Satanists}. In either case, mountain out of molehill here. Ohh a percentage of pro-choice activists shout “hail satan” to make a political point about unjust hypocrisy and/or to poke fun, and even if a few people there were satanists themselves{it defies reality to assume they all were}-this is somehow proof that ALL pro-choicers are satanists and on top of that reverse christian devil worshippers…oh and that the govt is too because a few got away with shouting hail satan for a few seconds in public, PULLLEASE!!! If that is proof of some big satanist conspiracy than the wealth and power at the disposal of mainstream christian fundys in north america is proof of a christian conspiracy. Come on!”


…and these comments made by another poster by the name of Dan- which are important to include: “Sorry, but I have to call BS on this one. It could be anti-abortion protestors also since we don’t see who is actually saying “hail Satan.” Moreover, the audio of the ‘hail satan’ could have been inserted in the footage on a separate audio track.”

My response to Dan below:

“I also pointed out that no one in the pro-life crowd there, including the speech giver, seem to be aware that this chanting is going on. You’d think if this was actually occuring that they would look over in fear or disgust or confusion or ask them politely to let them finish their speech, but nope…these people seem oblivious to these chants. does’nt this raise anyone doubts as to the authenticity of this video?”